Unemployment
Cheyenne: We are so excited to get into our topic today, but we have a little housekeeping to get out of the way first.
Rachel: Our show is made possible in part by our patrons on Patreon. For as little as $3 a month, you can get episode shout-outs access to topic polls and be able to listen to whole area's outtakes.
Cheyenne: We'd also like to invite you to follow us on social media. You can follow us on Facebook at What the Finance, Twitter at finance_what. On Instagram at what_the _finance. And we would also be delighted if you emailed us what_the_finance@protonmail.com. So, unemployment, I feel like it's kind of wild to me that we've made it so a year into this podcast through a pandemic, and we never talked about unemployment.
Rachel: Honestly, I think it’s just a testament to both how the topics that we talked about on the podcast are things that are top of mind for us and how frankly, how lucky both of our families have been through the pandemic. Also, you know, actually I personally don't know anybody who lost their job because of the pandemic. So, I knew it was happening. I just didn't know anybody that it happened to.
Cheyenne: I don't personally know anybody either. I do know like a couple of people, three degrees of separation, but not like that. One's a tough one. I like I do, but I don't know.
Rachel: Right. Well, and I think I’ve shared on the podcast before that I work in higher education and I've talked to a bunch of students who lost their jobs during the pandemic, but also thankfully a lot of the COVID relief had dollars that were specifically earmarked for people in schools. And so, they could get extra help. I appreciated that they did that, but no, and I actually, I think about this with the podcast too, it's hard to make a connection with somebody when all you can hear is their voice. Right, like. . . It was for my job. I just been on the phone really, almost all the time for a year and a half. There's not that face-to-face component.
Cheyenne: Yeah. I think that, like, I had more of like experience where everybody was in a video chat all the time, but for majority of the time throughout the pandemic, I also was working in education.
So I did. And employment looks like right. A lot of people did and I am forever thankful for that.
Rachel: Although, since we’re talking about unemployment. . . One time in my family, I'm gonna qualify this one time in my family in my adult life. Plenty of times when I was a kid. . . we had a very stressful unemployment experience. Frankly, the month of May 2016. I would basically wish on nobody ever. I was pregnant, heavily so. . . my daughter was born on May 27th. The first week of the month, I got into a car accident with my other daughter who was two at the time. And the car got totaled the week after that my husband lost his job. And thankfully all of our benefits with your, my job. So, we didn't lose our health insurance three weeks before, or two weeks before a baby was due to be born. And then the following week have the baby so in my adult life that kind of is my experience with unemployment. Is job loss coupled with a baby about to be born. And that was basically the worst thing ever.
Cheyenne: So, for those of you, that's literally everybody, but Rachel, that aren't on the video chat with, with us right now. I am. I'm not in my usual office. Yeah. I am sitting outside of my camper on just feet away from Lake Superior.
Rachel: And just so everybody knows, I am super jealous.
Cheyenne: I'm also a little, sorry, but like. . .
Rachel: Don’t be, you shouldn't be sorry at all.
Cheyenne: Recently I had never experienced being unemployed or knowing anybody that had that. It was just not a thing. Which is really lucky. But I also kind of feel like bizarre in a sense, outside of your situation in 2016. That was, that was the extent of it very recently when I myself became unemployed and it is stressful. Like, not that I thought it wasn't, but I I'm a worrier as it is. So I, that maybe other people are too. I don’t know
Rachel: I think we both are. So, you're like looking to the wrong person for confirmation that other people are different. Cause I definitely am not.
Cheyenne: Some of the first things that I did were like, I went and canceled all of our subscribe and save on pretty much any subscription we didn't need was like that day gone. But it's just, I don't know. There's so much to it that I didn't have a clue about like unemployment. What is it called? Unemployment insurance. What is it called?
Rachel: It is called unemployment. Or rather during your working life, one of your paycheck deductions is for unemployment insurance, and then you apply for benefits, right? It's the same as, I mean, honestly, it's the same as almost any insurance policy, right? Like you pay it. And then if you go to the doctor or get in a car accident, or somebody breaks into your house, you file a claim. Then you get your money that you've been paying in. Basically.
Cheyenne: I didn't know it was called unemployment insurance until recently.I also didn't realize like who was eligible at least in our state, which I think at this point, everybody knows that we're in Minnesota..
Rachel: Right. But if this is the first time that you are listening to an episode of What the Finance, your hosts are both in Minnesota and now you know,
Cheyenne: So at least in Minnesota, it was interesting to me what qualifies, or what doesn’t disqualify somebody from unemployment? It's very interesting because I feel, I feel like that there is a lot of misinformation that goes along with it. Like for instance one piece that I thought was I had never really known up until actually working at my previous job. It's not just your most recent employer that gets contacted. It's like within the last year, because they verify your wage at that, at those places. And so, the amount that you get for unemployment insurance based off of it. I think it's like a percentage of what you would have earned per quarter
Rachel: I did not know that.
Cheyenne: Yeah. So then it gets broken down weekly. It's very interesting.
Rachel: It is interesting.
Cheyenne: I think other things that I thought were interesting were the qualifying events, so to speak. So, I feel like everybody knew, like, were, it was beyond your control. So, if you were laid off or like the place that you were working for ceased to exist or something like that, then like unemployment, but it's not just that. And like, there was one of the ones that I thought was super interesting as you were actually in certain circumstances eligible for unemployment even if you quit. So if you're within a certain amount of time at a new job and you left a job to go to that job and like, it's just not a good fit. Like it wasn't advertised correctly, like all kinds of all kinds of like stipulations, but essentially, yeah. And then still be eligible for unemployment. It's a pretty like, yeah, it's a pretty specific scenario, but it's still worth noting as well.
Rachel: Really worth noting, like how many people stay in a crappy job that they know is a bad fit, because they don't think that they have any protection,
Cheyenne: I don’t remember how long it has to be. I want to say it's like 90 days or something like that. I can't remember for sure. It's a certain, certain, I just read it, but I can't remember what it was, but I did think it was really cool. I also am pretty sure Minnesota is one of the more progressive states when it comes to that, because I know like other states who are completely disqualified from unemployment. You're not, you're still eligible and there may be like a hearing or something. It doesn't automatically disqualify unemployment.
Rachel: Also, in Minnesota it's if you quit within the first 30 days of employment. So, you have a month.
Cheyenne: And I think that would be fair, although, I mean, I feel like that's still in the honeymoon period where like, you may not know that your employer is not awesome in that time, but at the very least, if in 30 days you just started a new job and you're like, ahh no.
Rachel: Well, and I think I'm just looking at the state unemployment insurance website right now. And the first criteria that would allow you to be eligible for unemployment even if you quit, if you quit for a good reason caused by the employer, one that would compel an average reasonable worker to quit. I mean, and I'm not, actually neither one of us are like employment lawyers or anything like that. So don't take this as legal advice, but that covers a lot of areas. And there are a lot of things that an employer could require you to do that are in fact completely unreasonable. And so, if you're sitting there going “Shoot, is this me? Is it somebody else? Right? Like, am I the one being unreasonable here?” Like if you're the one that's asking that question then no, probably you're not the unreasonable one here.
Cheyenne: Right. And I think that, I don't know, but it might be in the same. It might've been. Somewhere, in that same bullet, or it might have its own, essentially, if you, like, if you take a job and it is not a job that you, that was advertised, like you accept a position and then in that, especially in that first 30 days is they're like, okay, well, not only is it just, this it's this and this and this. And then this that's like, I feel like happens so often because, and I don't know if it's other states, but Minnesota does this, at least in the places that I've worked, Minnesota does this by saying other duties as assigned. It's always the last bullet on job responsibilities that doesn't just cover them for anything. That's not how that works.
Rachel: Pretty much. And I will. I even offer up an example and sadly, not one that happened within the first 30 days of this person's employment. But I had a job a number of years ago where like with any regular office environment, right. There's times that are really busy and times that are really slow. And we also had that kind of environment where if you didn't have anything to do, you would go to the boss and say, you know, ”Hey, I know it's a slow time. Is there like this extra project that you want me to work on or whatever.” Except that when nonwhite employees would come to our boss and say that she would have them clean the office. Did not happen the white folks. That would compel average, reasonable person to quit.
Cheyenne: Yeah. Yeah. Racism will do that.
Rachel: You know, the cabinets get dusty, and somebody's got to do it. Sure isn’t the janitorial staff. So yeah, there are things, there are a lot like that.
Cheyenne: Yeah. And so we're not, we're not employment lawyers and probably neither are any of your friends, but you are, if you're in a situation at work or in which your life is ridiculous. Talk to people and if they also think it's ridiculous. And if it, if, if like majority of people think that what you're answering is just outrageous don't stay or, or do you, do you, I mean, like, I guess, I don't know, I've never been one to, I've always been like the, you don't get a job until you have a job, but I also think that that is a super harmful mentality.
Rachel: Right. Well, and I think it really does depend on your life circumstances, right? Like that's a job that. . . draft that I just described was also the one that I was in. When my husband lost his job, it wasn't a great working environment. And I had been actually looking for a job, but it turns out it's really hard to get hired when you're pregnant. And that's a whole other episode for another day. But I couldn't quit. We needed the health insurance, so right. Like this is an other other episode for another day, but right. Like do what you can to try to keep your sanity. If you do need to keep your job for, you know, things like health insurance or things like, or, you know, whatever, but also look for something new because you don't deserve that.
Cheyenne: Right, right. Right. I think that's where like LinkedIn comes in. I don't accept friend requests on Facebook from people at work. Very, really, if you somewhat recently have worked with me and you're friends with me on Facebook I genuinely like you. But LinkedIn, but if I've met you. Or, or if I know somebody who knows you and has told me that you're like a good person or like a good connection, I'll accept that. I do not have to know you in person. It's very different. And I think that like growing or presence on LinkedIn is becoming one of the most useful tools in job searching these days because millennials are like, we're starting to be in leadership positions. We're starting to be like those hires. We're starting to be the recruiters. So being connected to somebody on LinkedIn, you hear about jobs way faster. And so, if somebody knows you and they're like, oh, I'm going to post that. You have this job and then you reach out and you're like, Hey, what should I know about this? That's super helpful.
Rachel: Right, right. Yes, it
Cheyenne: I just today messaged someone about a job. I know we haven't talked to him once. Can I ask you the questions about this, this job that you shared on your page? And they were like, totally. I asked a couple of questions. We probably won't talk for like another year. That's fine. That is literally what LinkedIn is for. Like, you don't have to feel compelled to keep this relationship going because LinkedIn is specifically for job connections or networking.
Rachel: So, connect periodically, but it's not, it's not something where you have to chat all the time. And I guess, as I'm thinking through it since we’re a finance podcast and talking about unemployment one thing that we haven't ever talked about on the show, I guess, explicitly is saving for emergencies. To my mind. We've kind of done that on purpose because I think that both of us recognize that most people aren't making a living wage and that if you want to have a life outside of making money, it's damn near impossible to save for an emergency. And so, I wanted to kind of be mindful to acknowledge that here. But one thing that I think is super important to keep in mind is like, when you lose your job, like you feel terrible initially, right? I think that's true whether you lose your job or your spouse loses your job, right? Like it's just like a gut punch. And because we live in a capitalist culture, you might try to ease that feeling by spending money.
I don’t think I do this very often on the show, but I will say, please, please, please, please, please, please. Don't do that. Right. You could keep on using your unemployment, like you would use your regular paychecks, right. To buy your groceries and pay your electricity bill and all that stuff. but please. Don't go on a spending spree and buy a bunch of shit that you don't need in an attempt to help yourself feel better because that desire is very legitimate. But spending money is in this case, not the way to help you feel better when in the long term.
Cheyenne: So it was kind of funny to me that you went in that direction with it because while I very much so agree, I also, I go the other way we live in a society. Yes, very capitalist, but also places, a very high value on what someone “does”. Like, one of the first questions when you meet people as, oh, what do you do? And that's to me like, and that's always been a weird thing, but it's just, I don't know. I would encourage if you were one of those people to take this with a grain of salt, so do it, or don't think of a different way to get to know people because you never know what they're going. You never know. But I also think that one, one thing that I feel like people who have. Do is, they put a lot of blame on themselves. And so, because of that, they feel like they have to, they have to punish themselves. I not spending any money, frivolously and that is very damaging. Like you deserve just to like exist in our culture. You do. I agree. Don't go on like a huge spending spree, but like also I, yourself, the candy bar by yourself. Right. It's okay. You can afford to do that, do it. It's okay. Awesome.
Rachel: I need to pedal back a little bit because yeah, I think you're exactly right for what it's worth. Just don't go nuts. That's it. Or if you like chocolate with nuts in it, then do go nuts. I'm sorry. I'm done.
Cheyenne: I liked that one. That was a good one. But I agree. It is very purposeful that you had not touched on emergency savings because ideal and a great idea. I also a majority of the people I know, and I know some like pretty financially stable people, but a majority of the people that I know are not financially stable enough to have emergency savings. So, it's completely unrealistic or in my opinion, anybody to have one, it's just it's we don't, we don't live in that world. And, you know, we talked about when we talked about college and tuition, our parents generation. Saved for college throughout the summer. And that was realistic, but we don't live in that anymore. And I think that it's, it's just not, it's just not realistic, ideal, but not necessarily doable. I mean, we can't, I'm about to go off on a rant if I keep going on that,
Rachel: We’ll just leave it. But if you can have an emergency savings, that's awesome. But if you're looking for a place to not get judged because you just can't swing it, this is the place for you.
Cheyenne: Yeah, definitely. I will not judge you at all for having a vacation savings and not an emergency savings that's equally. It's just not going to happen for me.